Episode 187 – Business Minded Creative Marketing with Diana Wink

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In this episode Mark interviews Diana Wink, fiction author, blogger and film director.

Prior to the interview Mark shares a personal update and a word from this episode’s sponsor…

You can learn more about how you can get your work distributed to retailers and library systems around the world at starkreflections.ca/Findaway.

During their conversation, Mark and Diana discuss:

• How Diana wrote poems in Russian and German when she was young and also wrote a novel when she was 11
• Asking about how she could combine music, visual art and storytelling together, which lead to her interest in film
• Loving the writing and the planning behind projects such as films
• How the shooting is the most stressful part of a film, and in editing it’s often about regret
• The way that everyone can have ideas that feed off of one another in a collaborative film project
• What it’s like to see the reaction of a live audience to a film at a film festival
• How, in film, if you don’t have a budget, you have to first find it – which isn’t necessary when writing fiction. And how this led Diana back into writing
• Diana’s dystopian sci-fi trilogy under the name DF Wink
• How science fiction and dystopian fiction can be a mirror held up to current events and reality
• The documentary style podcast format that Diana uses
• A slogan Diana uses: “There is a platform for every outstanding story and you have one to tell”
• That similar problem most writers often have with actually writing their first novel
• Diana’s book for writers: The Business-Minded Creative and why she put it together
• How Diana built her website (storyartist.me) using the principals of storytelling
• The struggle Diana faces because of all the different passions and areas of creativity that she engages in
• How Diana is fueled by every interview that she does for her podcast
• And more…

After the interview Mark reflects on a few things about what Diana said that inspired him, he thanks his patrons and listeners of the podcast.

Links of Interest:

• Diana Wink Website
• DFWink Website
• StoryArtist.me
• Findaway Voices
• Patreon for Stark Reflections
• Wide for the Win
• Mark’s Canadian Werewolf Books
  • This Time Around (Short Story)
  • A Canadian Werewolf in New York
  • Stowe Away (Novella)
  • Fear and Longing in Los Angeles
  • Fright Nights, Big City

Diana Wink is an author, blogger and film director.  With a passion for stories since she can remember, she studied film making and made a career as director of successful short films (awarded in festivals) and advertising.

In 2015, she decided to go back to her roots and finally finish her first fiction book. Since then, she attracted 5-star reviews, raving fans and written many more novels.

On Story Artist, she decided to share her creative journey and help content creators in new and effective ways because her credo is: There is a platform for every outstanding story.
And you have one to tell.

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The introductory, end, and bumper music for this podcast (“Laser Groove”) was composed and produced by Kevin MacLeod of www.incompetech.com and is Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0

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This automated transcript of the interview portion of the episode has not been human-verified

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Diana welcome to the stark reflections podcast.

Diana Wink: Thank you. I’m so honored to be here.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: I am thrilled to get to chat with you again. I want to go back for my listeners and just, um, let’s go back to when Diana first got an inkling to want to be a creative person. How did that creativity first come up for you?

Diana Wink: Um, it wasn’t writing. Actually. I started to write poems when I was seven and world my first novel when I was 11, I wrote it. When you break

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: the first novel, when you were 11.

Diana Wink: Wow. Yes. It was like a teeny novel. It never got published or anything, but yeah. And it was ironically in two languages. So I wrote, I wrote poems in Russian because this is like my mother language.

And then when we moved to Germany, my novel was in German and now I’m writing in English, so, yeah.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Wow. Okay. I’ve got to ask, are you S are you still writing poetry? You were nine year old writing poetry. Did you continue that?

Diana Wink: I continued that up until like, when I went to university, I still wrote poems. I feel like when, like the emotions were high in the teenage years and stuff, it was like an outlet for me.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Of course, that yeah. Often you do find a lot of teenagers write poetry and then, and then what happens? Do we beat the life out of them or we’d be, we’d beat the emotions out of them or something like that. Is that, is that what happens when it all dries up? Yeah, no, no,

Diana Wink: you, you kinda, I think it’s like resignation and you accept life as it is and move on.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Oh man. So, uh, I know, uh, I know you do a lot of visual work, so photography, filmography, how did that go? When you started off with poetry and then obviously writing novels in multiple languages, uh, how did that transition to you for, uh, for the visual arts?

Diana Wink: Well, I feel like I was always interested in lots in, and I was doing music a lot too.

So I was playing piano and really interested in music. And I first thought I might even go to the university, setting something music related. But, um, then I got interested in visuals and then I thought, okay, how can I combine all of that music, visual, uh, work, visual art and storytelling. And this is where film came along.

And this is why I decided to study film. Oh my

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: God. I love that. That’s right, because it is the amalgamation of all of it. Isn’t

Diana Wink: it. Yeah. Yeah. That’s definitely it

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: was there a particular, yeah, because film, filmmaking is very cloud can be very collaborative. It can can be independent, but it can be very collaborative.

Was there a specific aspect that you preferred over? Like one over another.

Diana Wink: I feel like a brilliant, the writing. I preferred the writing. I’m, I’m, I’m a hopeless introvert and this is why I love the writing stage when you’re on your own or maybe with a couple of people and just bouncing off ideas, writing the script, the planning stage is also what I really love because it’s not that stressful.

You just. Plan and you get to fantasize and you get to think about all those possibilities and how you can solve problems with the budget that you have. The most stressful thing is actually the shooting itself, the shooting days. And once you’re in the edit, it’s like the regret part where you think, okay, We should have done this.

We should have done this. Why haven’t we done this? So then you try to make the best

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: out of it, right? Because all you have is the raw footage and you’re like, Oh, wow. Well, we’re not there. We don’t have the actors or the sat or any of the pieces. Yeah. You’ve got to make, do with. Well, that’s improv in a really, uh, it really restricted way that that has got to involve oodles of creativity then.

Right. It’s

Diana Wink: I, I still love film making, like, it’s still my, a huge passion of mine because you get to work with so many interesting people. It’s just, it’s such an amazing calibration. You have so many people, like even the. Smallest set involves around 20 people. Uh, and you have the camera person, the lighting person, audio, you have makeup, you have costume.

And all of these people love what they’re doing and they contribute to your vision. And the thing that emerges on the screen later on is everybody had something to do with it. And. It’s just, I love that. And you feed off the energy of each other. So, um, everybody has ideas and you bounce them off and you try to decide what’s best for the film, for the vision, for the story.

And it’s, it’s a really creative process process. Oh

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: yeah. I mean it is, um, um, having done very, very micro, uh, film kind of things in theatrical productions with people, I understand that incredible passion and intensity, and then. You’ve had the honor of not only getting to do this kind of thing, but some awards have come along.

Can you talk a little bit about, uh, some of that, uh, the, the award of the rewards or the reward of the awards? I should say

Diana Wink: no, there weren’t actually awards. It was just that I got to play my short film on several festivals con in LA, in. In Berlin. Yeah, it was really interesting. And actually in Berlin, I got even to see the reaction of the audience and to talk a little bit about the film to the audience.

And it’s, it’s like, you talked about theater and I actually do theater too, as an, as a director. And this is the. Good thing about theater. You get the feedback instantly from the audience. And I love that. And this was kind of a little bit like that. When you see your film play out on the screen and you see the audience react and you get to answer that questions, you actually see the reaction and it can be good.

It can be bad. You learn from your mistakes. And at the same time you see what worked. And this is really rewarding actually, as a creative.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Oh man. Yeah. I can only imagine, right. Uh, what that must be like. Cause as a, as a filmmaker, you don’t often get the chance. People are experiencing it in their own time, on their own screens, all over the, all over the place.

Um, and you never really get to see them and interact. So that must have been amazing. Um, and then, uh, as I understand it in 2015, You returned to your roots? Not necessarily writing poetry, but definitely writing fiction. What, what was it that prompted that change?

Diana Wink: Um, I understood that with film, like I said, it’s still a filmmaking, but it all depends on budget.

And if you don’t have a budget, you have to find that budget. And your, I have like everything I plan is really big. So if anyone reads my fiction, they will see that my story is I like these huge stories in the near future. And, um, To film that you need a huge budget and nobody’s going to give me that budget because I’m not a whole of what director and to get there.

It’s like, it’s like playing lottery. You never know if you get there. So I decided I love the writing process. Why shouldn’t I just sit down and start writing instead and publishing and see how those stories work? It’s it’s not saying that someday I might get the chance to. Realize that dream and film one of these stories, baby.

I don’t know, but instead of waiting around, I just decided, okay, I’ll just sit down and start writing instead.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Oh my God. So, and you write under a DF wink. Can you talk a little bit like, so w what, what are these. Imagine that your stories are going to cause a Hollywood budget person to go, Oh my God.

Diana Wink: Yeah.

So it’s, it’s set in its dystopia basically. And it’s set in the near future and I just finished my trilogy, uh, which also has like a fourth book. It’s um, it’s an developed prequel novella. Um, yeah. And it said in the near future, in a whole entire year, Different society where, um, there, like it’s, it’s a whole thing to describe.

And so you just story basically, but, uh, there’s this protagonist who is in the inner cities that are completely digitalized and have a whole other system and society and see family and, um, Connections differently. And then he gets to, to the outside world where people still have these old traditions and people from the outside hate the people on the inside cities.

And the same goes like the city people that hate the outsiders and he gets to see both sides and realize that all of this is like, Huge lie. Yeah. And this is where it all starts, like fighting the government and, you know, and uncovering secrets and so on.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: And, and when I’m what I’m picking up from this, as it sounds like a really good science fiction is often a mirror held up to reality.

Right. Is that the case? So you can, you can talk about things without talking about things and offending people, because you’re looking at a, well, this is a future dystopian society. It’s not us. Right. Is that, is that the

Diana Wink: case? And this is what I love about dystopia. And this is, I guess, why I pick dystopia as my genre, because dystopia always holds a bridge to society.

If we just look at the classics 1984, brave new world, uh, and handmade, stale, and all these other dystopias, they all have something to say about the current society. So they are about the story in the future, but, but actually they’re about us.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: I love that. I love that. So you you’re enjoying the ability. So I guess the writing allows you to kind of just let your imagination go and you’re not bound by budgets and, uh, and casting and makeup and special effects because it’s you, your imagination, those words on the paper, paper, and, and the imagination of the reader, right?

That you don’t need to depend on other things like that. Right.

Diana Wink: Yeah. And if I feel like it’s something I can’t control, and I guess I’m kind of a bit of a control freak. You probably have to be if you’re a director, because you have to control all these apartments. And I like this control. And when I’m writing, I have the control over everything over the story, over the process.

And this is actually why I’m an indie publisher. I’ve never. Tried to publish traditionally, actually I went in the, from the beginning when I discovered indie publishing, because I wanted the control. I loved that it’s it was all on me. And I got to do something about it instead of waiting for someone to give me permission.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Wow. That’s amazing. So I want to talk a little bit about where you are, because I know you’re a five hours ahead of Eastern time zone, where you are in the world. And if there is a different perspective of independent publishing, uh, compared to the, you know, the North American centric, it’s all about Amazon, all about the U S all the time.

So where are you in the world? And is there a difference that you found, are there different markets? Are there different approaches that you may take.

Diana Wink: Yes, I’m based in Germany. And, um, let me say first that we actually really behind America and the English speaking market when it comes to self publishing.

So it’s just, yeah, it’s just starting, even with self publishing. Lots of. Authors. They don’t even know that self publishing is a good route and there’s still this mindset that self publishing is for those who couldn’t make it traditionally. And it’s like a plan B. And it’s not that, uh, let’s say it’s not that professional.

So it’s still in the hands of the authors basically, because we’re, I feel like I have at least seven years behind when it comes to that. Um, but so far ahead,

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: What do you mean? Well, I mean, you’ve, you’ve been engaged in this space. You’re aware of it. You’re cognizant you don’t have the prejudices against self publishing.

How did you, how did you get ahead of the

Diana Wink: curve? Uh, yeah, because I’m in the English speaking market, basically. I, everything I know, I know from the English speaking. People like you like join a pen and like everybody else’s in independent publishing and teaching and educating authors and, um, yeah, I have the English speaking perspective basically.

And uh, if everybody who’s in the German writing and speaking market there, they don’t know all the stuff, but this is why I’m actually trying to educate the German authors as well from an English speaking. Perfect, uh, perspective. Yeah. So this is one part of it, but on the other side, I feel like. We are not that Amazon centric basically because, uh, we have to Lino.

It’s a big, big player here in the German market. And, um, people like the German authors still publish NKU a lot, but I feel like many authors are asking me. Okay. What about, uh, what about wide publishing? How can I do that? I want to be on Toledo. I want to be, uh, I want to be wide. I want to be everywhere, but they’re just not that educated, so they don’t know how to do this and they need more education and they need more mindset change, I guess, as well.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Wow. It’s so fascinating because again, most of the perspectives, as you said, are coming from Western North American centric. And Talena just so for people who don’t understand is an Alliance, right? It’s an Alliance of major book retailers and small book retailers, all coming together to. To PR I think one of the things I love and respect about markets like Germany and France is there’s a lot of protection of the culture of the, of the creators from internal.

Is that, is that a sense that you’re still getting there?

Diana Wink: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. We are, but there’s a lot of protection, but I feel like some of it is also holding us back, you know? So we’re a little bit like afraid of innovation and afraid of. The new things, the new trends that are coming, this is why authors are afraid to go in the actually and they still think, okay, traditionally published is much, much better and so on, but it’s coming.

I feel like it’s coming, it’s coming slowly and authors get interested more and more in that because our publishing industry changes as well.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Cool. Now, uh, you, you mentioned that you’re trying to help other authors see the light and understand the, the bright future, not the dystopian future for at least with the dystopian for your fiction, but also for the non-fiction that you do.

And, and, and you’ve got the, uh, the story artists. Uh, so you’ve got the podcast and, and the thing I wanted to talk about, because you were talking about, um, being a director, And, and having that vision and putting the pieces together and, and kind of manipulating that. And one of the things I love about your podcast is, is you have that essence of the production is it’s not just a raw interview.

It’s an interview interspersed with, um, director commentary is the best way I can describe it as like, when you’re watching a movie you love. And then, and then the director put I pause and the director says, let me tell you a little bit about this scene and you do that in such a fascinating way. I like to call them reflections.

You’re reflecting on things along the way, but I, where did that come from your background in film, uh, that sort of approach.

Diana Wink: Well, first of all, thank you for that for the compliment. Um, well, I, I feel like I wanted everything to everything I do. I want to, I want it to be storytelling and I try to be the best.

It can be in the amount of time that I have, and I tried it. I tried to build it like a storytelling perspective, a little bit, that I’m the one telling the story, and this is why I’m commenting on it. So I’m telling, for example, your story and you get to tell me what you’re doing and your perspective on it.

And then I’m commenting on it, like from my perspective. And I tried to build it a little bit like a story and let it flow and see where are the highs, ups and downs cause conflicts and so on. And this is what I tried to do. This actually. Uh, the idea came from podcasts, podcasts that are produced with much, much larger budget, where you have like different speakers.

And then you have this one moderator who tries to guide you through this.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: It’s like a BBC radio, like a really good program, right?

Diana Wink: Yeah. I tried to replicate that a little bit. I know it’s not the same, but taking this idea and trying to do it on a much smaller scale. And this is why I did that.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: It’s like a documentary tech pretty much.

That’s what it felt like when I listened to your podcast. And I was like, I really liked that because it’s, uh, it was, it was it, you know, in the U S. It would be NPR here in Canada, it would be CBC. And that you would get that feel of this is someone who’s really cares is researched and there’s actually an, and is sharing again that that’s what we’re doing is storytelling.

Now you have, you have a slogan that I really, really love that I think is from your podcasts. And that’s, there was a platform for every outstanding story and you have one to tell. That seems to be the underlying basis. Uh, where did that come from that idea that you wanted to help pull, pull these stories together and tell other people’s stories?

Diana Wink: Yeah, I feel like everyone has a story to tell and. We’re often thinking. And I think it’s a problem of every creative person. We feel like imposters, imposter syndrome. What have, what do I have to offer to this world? Why should I, why should anybody listen to me? But I feel like if it’s a story, well, we all have a story to tell, but we need to learn how to talk, to tell it well, how to tell it in the right way, how to use the principles of storytelling for our advance to our advantage.

And yeah, just the learn, how to tell the story so that people will listen. Because. Everybody has a story to tell, but not everybody can tell that story in a good way. And this is why, what I’m trying to do, like educating creatives who have a story to tell and want to tell their story, how to do this. Uh, and I feel like storytelling is the answer to everything.

Like not even not only fiction or nonfiction books, it’s with marketing, even storytelling. I strongly believe in storytelling principles in marketing, for example, and in. And film audio, uh, podcasting blog posts, everything, basically even your own life, because storytelling is actually based on psychology a lot.

So yeah,

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: you just captured my heart in that opening is that storyteller is a storytelling. It’s the answer to everything. It’s the heart of everything. Isn’t it? It is so true when you think about that. Uh, it’s so true. And so what I love about that is you use, you’re applying a principle that is often considered.

Fictional tales, but can be used in documentaries effectively as you’re applying that in a way to help educate other writers and inspire them potentially to see, to see the good that can come from embracing digital. How has that experience been for you from when you first started doing it to, to where you are now?

Diana Wink: Um, I feel like it was a learning curve. Definitely. Uh, when I started writing the first novel, for example, it took me like. And one and a half or two years to write that. And that I, I feel like, I think everybody has that problem with the first novel. They feel like, okay, I’m never going to finish that with the second one.

You get, you have your routine, you have your process, figure it out at least a little bit. And with every novel that you write, it gets easier and easier physically. And this is with everything I feel with podcasting. I had my pockets. Not didn’t always sound the way they sound now. And they probably won’t sound the way this sounds now in a year or two, probably they will be different.

Right. And, um, it’s, it’s always a learning curve and I feel like this is why I love that doing that because I love the process. I’m not, don’t only love the results, but I love developing. I love looking forward. I love looking back, learning from that and developing as a creative, basically.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Well, that’s fantastic.

And so again, because, because you are a multi-talented creative and you like the different facets of story of, of bringing people together of inspiring of informing you, uh, just, uh, this year, uh, earlier this year in 2021, you released a book, a non-fiction book for writers, and it’s called the. The business minded creative.

So where did, uh, did that come from, work on the podcast? Did it come from other things that you were working on?

Diana Wink: It actually came from a struggle that I had that, you know, this, this typical like phrase you hear everywhere, just keep producing great content and things will come together for you. And I felt like, okay, I’m just going to do that.

And I produced content and produced and produced and produced. But, um, I, I felt like after two years of something, I was burning out because I was producing content, but I didn’t see. The people coming magically because I produce great content, you know? And, um, then I had Joanna Penn on my podcast.

Actually, I first took her course, which is the, uh, bright your author business plan. I think it’s called that way like that. And then she was on my podcast and she talked to me about business and creativity. And this is where. It all kind of started to come together for me. And when I started changing my own trajectory from being just creative and just producing great content to also thinking about business and thinking about how can I serve people, how can I make money with what I do and planning accordingly, not just hoping for the money to come in, but planning.

About okay. How, where will the money come from? How will it all come together? How will I reach the people, strategic marketing ideas that also were creative. And also this mind shift of not just thinking about myself as a creative, but as a creative entrepreneur, as a creative business woman. And from this.

And I, when I started doing this, I saw stuff changing in my creativity in my life and my outlook on how I interact and also people coming in and people, my audience growing and so on. And so on. I started seeing the results and from this came the motivation to write that book. And in that book, I combined kind of.

The first part is about creativity. So how can you establish a really, really sustainable creative practice, even if you don’t have a lot of time, because I know lots of people have day jobs and I still do freelance work now. And then, and. Why you still still need to have this creativity in your day to day life and how to hack your brain, how to like, um, yeah, just establish this creative routine where you can do deep creative work.

And on the other hand to have this business thinking and also creative business thinking, not just okay, it’s all about money, because I feel like we all be creative. Think, okay. If it’s a business, it’s a scam. And I feel guilty about taking money and. Why should I’m not Stephen King? Why should anybody buy my books and pay money, pay me for that.

And combining those two in your everyday practice and in your mind. So like this mind shift. Um, yeah, and I just pulled from my own ideas and also from other creative, successful creatives and other authors and their daily routines and their practices and brought it all together into this

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: book.

Fantastic. So as you were pulling these ideas together, as you were pulling this sort of, um, potential, um, checklists or plans or things that people could do, what were some of the things that you found often stood in an author’s way of achieving that? Creative business balance.

Diana Wink: I feel like with my, like I said before, mindset is one of the things, and I know from myself, like when, when I started being an indie publisher, I think we all at least.

Thought about that. Can anybody else do the marketing for me? I just wanted to ride my books. I don’t want to do the marketing stuff. Can I hire somebody to do the marketing for me? And I feel like it’s such a typical question and I know I’ve been guilty of it. And, um, this is. A huge, huge mistake that in our minds, like we have to understand that marketing is also really creative and nobody else can do the marketing for you because you’re the best person to do your marketing.

And it’s it’s so it can be so much fun if you just reframe it in your mind. And this is why I love when I discovered that storytelling. So that marketing can be achieved by storytelling. And it’s also marketing is telling a story. What I actually love to do then I started to realize, okay, it’s cool to do marketing, and you can do it in a very creative way.

And it’s a privilege because marketing is also connection with your audience, with your tribe and so on. And this is like, there’s so many wrong. Mindsets in creators that we have to tackle first, before we can get into the practical steps. Right. Wow. I

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: love that. Is there a possibly an example you might have of, of an approach in marketing, where you applied a storytelling principle and then suddenly it all became clear.

Diana Wink: Yeah. For example, in the way that I created my landing page on story artists.me, it’s all built with principles of storytelling, basically. So I thought about, okay, who’s the hero and the hero is always your target audience, not you basically. You’re the mentor that target audience. Yeah. We like to think about ourselves as heroes, but you’re not it’s the audience.

Um, and. Then. Okay. But do you have to find out first, okay. Who is this hero? Who is this person that is reading my, that is my ideal audience that will be reading this page. And then what’s his con the conflict is like the heart of story. So I have to realize, okay, what’s the problem? What does he want? All these basic storytelling.

Things steps that we take, what does he want? What’s in his or hers way of getting it. So who’s the villain or what can be like a force and you have to name it. You have to name it all in the page and get through it. Just start with the conflict. You talk about the problem you say, what’s holding them back, talk about the villain and then you come up with a solution and say, okay, this is the solution.

This is what I have for you. I’m the, you come in like the mentor and you tell them, okay, this is, um, My solution to the problem. And then there are like small things. For example, show don’t tell the evergreen principle for storytelling. It’s, it’s also the same in marketing. Like you have to show them why should they trust you?

You have to show them either by telling your own story or by giving them some facts or proof, uh, that could be testimonials from others and so on. And so show that you are you’re, you. No, what you’re talking about rather than just tell it. And there are these small storytelling principles that you can apply to everything, basically.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: That is amazing. Thank you. That is phenomenal. I think it’s, I think it’s an excellent example for an author to look at a task and go, Oh my God, how am I going to approach this? And you’re like simple story. I love, I love this line. Let’s just take it back to the basics. We’re there, here. We’re going to share a story with you, them with them, the, the audience, the reader in mind.

I love that. So because you have these, uh, multitalented, uh, ways that you approach creativity, um, If you, because you know, you, you, right, you’re passionate, you said you’re introverted. You love to create these worlds and share them, but you love collaboration as well. You love the, uh, you know, the theater and, and, and, uh, and video and, and all of the things that you can do with film, but then you also, I definitely am getting a passion for teaching and wanting to.

Stand in front of others and help guide them and mentor them, um, with all of those different hats that, that you are, you’re juggling, juggling hats, juggling, spinning plates, however you every want to do the analogy. What’s, what’s the area of, uh, that you would prefer to work on or do you, do you enjoy actually working on all of them?

Diana Wink: I feel like I actually do enjoy working on all of them. Um, maybe it’s, it’s like, it’s also a flaw because it’s for, it’s really hard for me to focus. There’s so much to do. And so many things that I want to do and to do them all at once. And I sometimes I feel like, and there’s also like your private life, my kid and everything else.

And I’m like, okay, maybe I have to. Maybe I should not do my podcast or not do my YouTube channel, or maybe I should start blogging, but I just can’t. I love all of this. And when I’m thinking about, okay, what should I stop doing in order to focus on something else? I really start to struggle. I’ll be honest with you.

I feel like maybe the most important or the one I enjoy the most is my fiction side. Definitely. I really love that. Um, But I also love the, to change up things. You know, when I finished my fiction book, I have to do something else before I dive into the next one, they have to change things up. Yeah. And it it’s, I don’t know if I could just be this author who writes fiction eight hours per day.

Uh, I’m not sure I can do that. I feel like I need to do different stuff. And also we talked about the energy and I feel like. There is a time when you’re, when I’m creative and I’m on my own, but I also like to get this motivation from others. To connect with people like with podcasting and meeting every podcast interview I do on my podcast.

It fuels me with so many ideas and so many. I actually do them for me. I know that my audience listens to, but they’re all for me. And, uh, it’s, like I said, with Janet Penn’s ban, her interview changed the course of my creativity and it’s. Most of them, do most of them give me new ideas. So yeah, it’s really hard to focus.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: That is fantastic. That is, uh, again, so many wonderful, uh, so many wonderful audio bites. You’ve given me not sure what I’m going to use for the teaser at the beginning, but I’ve so much choice. Thank you and Darren. Um, but so after inspiring my listeners, can you please, uh, let my listeners know where they can find all about you online?

Diana Wink: Yes. Sure. So. Everything I do for creative people for authors. When I teach them about storytelling is on story artists.me. And there’s also my podcast, my blog and everything else. And my fiction side, I write under the pen name of D F wink a and it’s also DF wink.com and everything else.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Diana, thank you so much for hanging out with me saying thank you so much for the, the re-inspiration.

Diana Wink: Thank you. Well, I’m so honored to be here. Thank you for having me.