In this episode Mark interviews Jennifer Buchanan, President and founder of JB Music Therapy about the role music has played in her life, as well as the life-altering moment that inspired the creation of her company which uses music to help others.
Prior to the interview, Mark shares comments from recent episodes, including who the winners are of Michael Arterberry’s book from Episode 147, as well as a word from this episode’s sponsor, Findaway Voices.
You can learn more about how you can get your work distributed to retailers and library systems around the world at starkreflections.ca/Findaway.
In his personal update, Mark shares:
- Info about a couple of episodes he shared for patrons of the show (a reflections on other podcasts where he shares a clip from and talks about Episode 190 of The Writer’s Well with Rachael Herron and J. Thorn (both have been guests on previous episodes of this podcast)
- An update on the progress made from his recent booklaunch, with the push on the free “first book” in series and the slowly growing sales of the next two books in his Canadian Werewolf series.
- How Amazon screwed up the great track record for the downloads of the price-matched free first in series title
- Having had success in getting more than 7000 words written in the past week (after a previous extended dry spell of writing) – this writing is for Lover’s Moon, another title in the Canadian Werewolf series.
- An update on the Obsessions Kickstarter that has reached 153% of its funding goal and is almost halfway to the first stretch goal.
During their conversation, Mark and Jennifer discuss:
- Jennifer’s introduction to music and which instrument she prefers as the most beautiful instrument
- The experience of hearing the same song via different singers and the uniqueness of the emotional resonance in the listener
- The underlying biological impact music can have on us
- The human to human connection that music can bring
- Understanding that there is some music out there that is specific to you, and might not resonate the same way with others
- The backstory of Jennifer’s music therapy business and how it ties back in to a life-altering moment with her grandfather
- How, when she was a child, Jennifer was the kind of kid who loved doing special projects
- The age range of Jennifer’s clients and the kinds of therapies that are popular with clients
- An annual music festival a friend of Jennifer’s runs called Farmstock, and how it had to change significantly due to the Covid-19 pandemic
- Jennifer’s advice about the creation of a life playlist
- Wellness Incorporated, Jennifer’s most recent book and how it became a bridge between being a music therapist and having to be an entrepreneur
- Getting an MBA a couple of decades after starting her business
- And more . . .
After the interview Mark reflects on the way music can bring people together and find strong bonds of commonality. He also reflects on the concept of a biographical playlist, and suggests writers might consider the theme music that might play when a character walks into a scene as an interesting exercise for writers.
Links of Interest:
- Jennifer Buchanan’s Website
- Jennifer’s Books
- Jennifer’s Social Media
- JB Music Therapy
- JB Music Social Media:
- Episode 150 -Anatomy of a Book Launch
- Episode 149 – Killing it on Kickstarter with Russell Nohelty
- Episode 147 – Master Encourager Michael Arterberry
- Mark’s Feed The Obsession Kickstarter
- Mark’s Canadian Werewolf Series
- Findaway Voices
- Wide for the Win Submission Form
- Patreon for Stark Reflections
Jennifer Buchanan is an award-winning author and clinician.
Described as inspirational, engaging, and thought-provoking, Jennifer’s keynotes provide practical strategies, grounded in global research and case studies, that help foster improved well-being within ourselves, our workplaces, and throughout our community.
Jennifer’s company JB Music Therapy has been instrumental in the implementation of hundreds of music therapy programs throughout Canada for almost 30 years and has been thrice nominated for the Community Impact Award by the Chamber of Commerce. Jennifer is the recipient of the two most prestigious Canadian music therapy lifetime service awards: the Franni Award and the Norma Sharpe Award.
She has served as the President for the Canadian Association of Music Therapists for 5 years and has been an invited keynote speaker at national and international conventions speaking on music therapy and health entrepreneurship to a wide variety of education, healthcare, government, small business, and corporate audiences.
As an author of two award-winning books – ‘Tune In‘ and ‘Wellness Incorporated‘ she has appeared as a guest on numerous news and current affairs programs including Fox News Health, NBC, CBS, CBC Radio, CBC Television, CTV, Global TV, and has been featured in publications such as The Guardian, The Huffington Post, Chatelaine Magazine and Canadian Living (read articles and view videos here)
In addition to her Music Therapy education Jennifer has her Executive MBA specializing in social entrepreneurship from the University of Fredricton.
Below is an automated transcription of the interview segment of this episode.
(The transcription has not been human-verified)
Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Hey, Jennifer. Thank you so much for hanging out with me here today.
Jennifer Buchanan: Thanks for having me Mark.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre: So I am so excited to get into what you do and the way that you help people. But first, I think I want to go back to music in your life and why, and how music became important to you.
Jennifer Buchanan: Yeah, I was one of the lucky kids who had a lot of music during public school, starting very, very young, like.
We had band starting in grade five. And that’s when I would pick up my first clarinet. I was learning guitar by the time I was in grade eight. So I had a lot of opportunity, um, to sing and to engage with that. And. It’s what really motivated me to go to school every morning and motivated me throughout the day.
For sure. And so I’m a big proponent.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Well, I’m curious, because you talked about the clarinet and then by grade eight, you were learning the guitar. Um, do you have a favorite? Are there, I imagine there may be others in your life, or I S I’ve seen video of you playing the guitar. So I know that you’re still doing that.
Jennifer Buchanan: Yeah. You know, the core, I think I’m a singer. I think singing has been something, um, I gravitate to, regardless of what else I use, but it’s nice now being a music therapist, which I. Can tell you more about how I got there, but now being a music therapist, having a variety of instruments in your life became quite handy.
So it’s good.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre: So the voice obviously is a beautiful instrument, right? Because it can do all these things. So what is it about voice? Um, is it the meaning of the, of the lyrics? Is it the sound. That can come on. What is it about singing?
Jennifer Buchanan: That is a good question. Um, yeah, I think it has a lot to do with quality for me.
Um, There are, because, I mean, maybe you’ve had this experience too to where someone can say sing the same song. Right. But your emotional response to it can be so different just based on the tone and the quality. I would say that’s me that it comes down to that own. And I, uh, I think that’s also what led me again into, um, the work that I do and what I pay attention to and others is, is working hard to create the actual quality of music that people will respond to the most emotionally to help them get through a difficult time.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre: I’m really excited to talk about music therapy, but we’re, we’re hitting on that emotional resonance, that music with people. Where does that come from? How does, what is that?
Jennifer Buchanan: Right. And, and we’ve definitely been feeling it through COVID right now, where people have just naturally gravitated to using music, to Sue them and to comfort them.
Um, you know, there are biological reasons why this happens where music has this incredible capacity to. Um, hit our reward centers of the brain and, and to release hormones in our body that will help us feel better. And, and we definitely can get the fields from, from what music can do. Um, but it does seem like there’s more.
Doesn’t it, I mean, biology’s really important, but there seems to be this, this deeper connection into, um, what some of us might call the, the foundation of our lives, the roots of our lives. And, um, and, and so for me, it’s about the connection. That can be made between human to human person, to person. Um, that’s another reason why this covert thing has been a little difficult because now we’re communicating virtually so much more, including our musical sharing and, uh, and it’s worked and we’re making it work, but there is something about being there in the music together with somebody else.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Oh, yeah. I mean, I love what you said about that. Because as a writer, I always think about the fundamental reason why people write is storytelling is it’s really to connect to people. And that is what music does. Right. And music beautifully can connect multiple people. Cause usually reading is a one on one sort of personal experience, but music can be communal.
It can be one-on-one. It definitely is. I think there was something else that you said or wrote once that really, really made me reflect. And, and it was that everyone has a different relationship with the same, same piece of music, not two different singers, but the exact same piece of music, they can get something different out of that.
There’s some power and magic in that. Isn’t there?
Jennifer Buchanan: There is. And, and, and so you can sometimes hear that someone may have such a strong connection to a piece music and you go don’t, you just love it. Don’t you just love that song, but they might not have that same relationship to it. Um, so it can also feel a bit let down because you want to be able to share it in the same way, your experiencing it and why.
Right. But that’s where I think we have to understand that there’s some music out there that is specific for you. That’s your gift. That’s what you are going to be able to have in your life. And, and you may not be able to share it in quite the same way.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Excellent. So let’s get to your superhero origin story of where JB music therapy business came from.
Jennifer Buchanan: Well, I, you know, I never get sick of TA or tired of telling this story because, um, my granddad was the most miserable man. Um, you. Could meet. He was, um, very classic. He didn’t love us kids hanging around too much. He always sent us to the basement and, uh, He unfortunately, um, had a second major stroke that sent him into to what we would classify now as longterm care at the time it was called extended care and it was right off of the hospital.
It looked like the hospital, there was nursing care, but there wasn’t a lot of other quality of life, um, experiences that you could have. And, and, uh, So, so needless to say the environment didn’t make him any happier than what he was previous. And he struggled. He was not able to walk. He was no longer able to talk.
He was quite a very strong man prior, and, and now he was completely dependent on others, particularly my granny and granny. Um, was one of the most special people in my life, um, as a mentor, as, as a woman leader and, and, uh, she was an incredible caregiver. She would show up at seven and o’clock in the morning to be with granddad.
And, and she would leave late at night. She would always bring home cooked meals. She’d bring in his favorite quilt. And so it shouldn’t have surprised any of us when she said, uh, Jen, would you bring, um, would you learn your grandfather’s favorite song and come in and play it for him? And, uh, I thought it was an odd request, although I was doing music.
Yeah. We had never done that before. It’s not, we weren’t the family that sat around and sang together. This was brand new for us. And the following Friday I went in, I took my guitar. I had a granny put a chair right in front of granddad. Um, I don’t think he looked too pleased. I think I felt really uncomfortable.
Granny didn’t care. She put her hand on my shoulder and she said, go ahead, dear. And I started singing the song and, um, We felt a shift almost immediately. Uh, the screaming lady that we always heard down the hall, her scream started turn turning into song as she came into the room and sat beside me. And then we have the, uh, wondering guy who would wander around.
Granny had to pull up another chair. We were crowded. In this room and granddad started to cry and something shifted. And so did my Friday nights. And, uh, until I would go into a music, the music therapy program, uh, Capilano university in North Vancouver, my Friday nights would be right there. In the extended care hospital with some of my favorite people who taught me so much
Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Oh my God, that’s beautiful. I, uh, I love how that started to bring people together from, and they’re there, they’re all doing different things or maybe stuck in patterns, whatever it was, but the music kind of broke them out of that and into something really beautiful. Wow. That’s a, before I get on to asking sort of the next step, I, I am curious, what was the song?
Jennifer Buchanan: What was it? Cliffs of Dover was the song by veer Lynn, although we’ve done a lot of others. Another one of my, um, grandfather’s favorite when I rush eyes are smiling was one of his absolute favorites as well. And so there were several that we learned he connected to, and that’s essentially what I have learned.
From, from a lot of people, lots of people not only are connecting to the quality of sound that we were talking about or a certain melody. Like you said, some people that really connect to the lyrics in this case, it seemed to be just that. The essence of the whole thing. Um, you know, the coming together of different people going through really difficult challenges, you know, um, I look back now and after meeting so many people who have had strokes and, and just, and at such a fast light transition, um, to have anything that, uh, reminds you that, that.
You are still complete and whole and important and loved. Um, I feel that’s ultimately what a music moment like that can do.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Wonderful. Wonderful. Okay. And so you had that experience that you, you saw the power of that you obviously kept, kept, you know, feeding that well and drinking from that. Well, because I think it’s a, it’s a two way street.
Jennifer Buchanan: Right. Everybody gets something.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Hmm. Then how did that transition into your entrepreneurial life?
Jennifer Buchanan: Right? Um, I, I feel so when I was a kid Mark, I was like kid who just loved doing special projects. You know, the teacher would say, okay, we’re doing, you know, a big project group project, and those are my favorite things.
And, um, I believe what happened. This is when I graduated from the music therapy program, there were no jobs. So if I was ultimately going to pursue this profession, I was the hundred and 33rd music therapist in Canada. So it was really early on. So if I was going to pursue this profession, um, I was going to have to go out and look, be entrepreneurial about it and start a private practice.
Just like other physiotherapists that or massage therapists have private practice. That’s what I ultimately was going to ask, have to do. And, um, And as I did that, I realized how much I loved it, but I, so don’t love to work alone. I love to work with people. So that’s where the hiring, um, started and creating jobs for other music therapists started, um, We are a team of 20.
Um, we serve many, many organizations now we’re doing a lot of virtual work with those organizations and working that out. Um, and it’s been, uh, It’s been, I thought I was probably going to be in it for five years. And here we are, 29 years as of two weeks from now, 29 years. Crazy.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Yeah, I was going to say, but you’re 29, aren’t you?.
Jennifer Buchanan: Absolutely.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre: So I’m curious, uh, what kinds of, um, what kinds of therapies are popular with your different clients? I imagine it’s, it’s pretty diverse.
Jennifer Buchanan: Yeah, absolutely. So, so our youngest client is two months old and our eldest is around 104. Uh, we not only work in long term care, although that continues to be very, very close to my heart.
And you can imagine right now, It’s incredibly important. We figure out how to make this work. Um, but we also work a lot with kids on, with development. We work with, um, kids that might be struggling with feeling connected to their world. Um, perhaps they have a diagnosis of something that’s, um, they’re wanting to, uh, To identify, to strengthen to, um, to, to feel good.
What about, so they can continue doing their life the way they want to do their life. Um, we work with youth, we work with those who are incarcerated. We work in end of life care and palliative care. Um, so of course, a lot of in the realm of mental health right now. So there is, um, I would say that we’re specialists when it comes to music therapy, but we’re generalists when it comes to the populations we’re serving.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre: So you, I mean, again, it’s very adaptive and the needs of each client.
Jennifer Buchanan: Yeah.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Wow. Two months old, I guess. Yeah, I guess because I I’d heard somebody say when they were talking about the value of. Oral storytelling is that the very first sounds we’ve ever heard where our mother’s voice very consistently for a long, long time.
And so I think that auditory thing is probably one of our. First developed senses, wouldn’t it be?
Jennifer Buchanan: Absolutely. And, and here we, and it’s also the last one to go, which is also very interesting. So our auditory, um, environment, therefore, is something for us to really consider from while we’re in utero, all the way to end of life.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Wow. Now you said something earlier that really struck a chord with me. And I was thinking about that communal nature of music, bringing people together. And I was thinking about one of the things I love to do when I travel is go to a bar and listen to some local musician I’ve never heard before, and they can be doing a cover song.
You know, Billy. Joel’s a piano man. You know, it’s the classic that everyone knows or their own unique music. It doesn’t matter. Often, often the commonality of a song we all know is it is quicker.
Jennifer Buchanan: Right, right.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Beautiful. That seems to happen. I end up, I have so many CDs because I’m so enthralled with the experience of that community where there’s that performer and everyone there is just.
All connected in different ways, because
Jennifer Buchanan: I have a particular story from somewhere you’ve been, that was particularly,
Mark Leslie Lefebvre: I wish I did, but I’d be, we’d be going for hours. I think I’m one of the last times I remember experiencing that was in Portland and I was there for a haunted. Uh, my, my girlfriend, Liz and I were there for haunted.
Um, it was a haunted place, so we thought, Oh, we’re going to stay overnight, this haunted place. Cause we were writing a book about haunted ours, and for a reason, they brew their own beer, but they’ve got 13 rooms upstairs. And so there’s a saloon, the salon downstairs and, and there was like, Oh, and, and even better, there’s two local musicians.
Cause we both love indie music. And so we went there. And, uh, El robotize was one of the music. I mean the name of the other one, and they both weren’t even from Portland, they were from. Traveling elsewhere.
And, and it was great because you know, the first musicians on be like, Oh my God, this is awesome.
And then the next one came on and like, Oh my God, this is awesome. And the night is better and better and better. We, we. We felt the spirit, uh, in a, in a magical way. Um, and I still listen to their music and I’ve got the CDs and I, and I buy the rest of their music, Google play and stuff, so we can listen to it at home.
But I guess the reason I’m saying that is you had mentioned, you know, COVID and therapy in person compared to. Uh, being distant because it’s a, it’s a real community based thing.
How, how do we, how do we get that now that we maintain our distance and there’s a global magnetic.
Jennifer Buchanan: Yeah, it’s, it’s been interesting for sure.
You know, and yet, um, so I have a friend who puts on something annually called Farm Stock every year. So she has a farm out in Ontario and they put on farm stock and people travel for miles in order to go and, and really enjoy. Live making a live music making and the fire and the whole camping experience together.
And this year, of course, that wasn’t able to happen for people. And so she put it virtual and, you know, everyone was feeling as it’s gonna work, you know? Um, but you went from home to home and people performed live from their home and showed their environments and created this connection in a new way.
Was it the same? No, it was different. But did you, you get some of the same fields? Yeah, I did. I definitely had a few tears coming down my face. I didn’t realize how much I needed that connection myself. So, so, you know, we, we don’t do it the same. We do it different, but the same reasons. And I think we can continue doing that.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Oh, that’s beautiful. Uh, Liz and I went to see July Talk – they’re, an indie Canadian band. And, uh, and it was at a drive in, and it was a really unique experience where you couldn’t cheer because we were facing the screen at the very back, but everyone would honk their horns really, really, really cool actually, because they were on stage, but you were watching them on the big screen.
Um, but it was, and again, I thought it felt. It’s not as fun as, as a, as a concert, but it completely different experience. Cause it brought us childhood too. Right. And remembering what it was like, Oh yeah, we should have brought lawn chairs because the cars are parked far enough away that we could sit in front of the car.
Jennifer Buchanan: Great.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Cause everyone else’s speakers were so loud. You could hear it.
Jennifer Buchanan: great.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre: So that that’s how, and then therapy one-on-one therapy now, obviously for, for, um, for seniors, because they’re high at risk, you have to be very, very careful about not bringing, uh, introducing, uh, infection. How do you work with seniors now?
Is it virtual that have the home setup, the ability to be there in, in, in a, like on a screen?
Jennifer Buchanan: It’s been a real mix. Um, The, the sad part of this story is there’s many places we’re not back at yet. Um, so virtual or otherwise, and the reason we’re not back virtually, um, is primarily because you do need to have the human resource on the other side and people are busy.
Like actually just finding the time in order to, to make a program like this happen, um, is. Is why we have not been able to come. So that’s been very difficult for everybody. Um, and then, yes, there’s this hybrid of virtual. With maybe even a mix of live, like since we’re in this, some are, we are able to go and sit outside and do some programming outside, um, as well as doing some virtual work, either one to one or small groups with a large screen.
In front of everybody. Um, but you can imagine that, you know, when we’re working with people that maybe can’t see it so well, or maybe can’t hear as well as they once did. Um, this can be particularly challenging. So again, it’s specific people that are able to adapt to this environment and not in the same way as when we can actually.
Be there with them. We’re still trying to work it out. We are back in some places we’ve got full PPE on. We are only going to one place a day. So that would be, um, part of what we’re doing there. Um, but it we’re going to have to continue working this part out.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Yeah. And I imagine if things continue to change and evolve as, as you move forward.
So there are probably ways that people can, um, use music to relieve stress and, uh, and other experiences. I think I read on your blog, uh, the importance of playlists and how they may be an upfront investment, but they’re actually a benefit. And I know, I know writers have playlists that they run. I’m wondering if you have any advice on, on playlists and how people can use that either for your meditation or.
Jennifer Buchanan: Absolutely. So it there’s some of my favorite things to do with the general public, um, working on team building. I love working with teams on this actually, because it’s a great way to connect and have fun. Um, amongst a group of people, um, we often hear about people. Beat belonging to book clubs, but we don’t hear a lot about it as often music clubs.
And I really do think that could be a thing and we could make it a thing. So playlists, one of the things I go through is about five different ways that you can put together a purposeful playlist. Um, Of course, there’s always the other ways where you could go on a new streaming service and you can download John reser feelings that you’re looking for, but this is different, right?
This is about, um, Going to your specific music, uh, the, the personal soundtrack of your life that you have had. So one of the first playlists I do suggest best we all start with and it will take time. It will, um, be something that we can do over time. And that is just identifying your. Complete personal soundtrack.
You might start from before you went in school, what sort of music and sounds were in your life? What was it, your perhaps your home environment, introducing you to, um, perhaps you had a jewelry box that had a particular tune that you will never feel. I forget. I know I used to have those golden books that you would turn the page and you could hear the chime as they turn the page.
Cause there was a cassette that went along with it. So those are so, and it could also be telecom the vision. I mean, you can think back to, um, Fred Rogers and you can hear all of them the sounds and um, Oh, what was the one? Um, with the flute, um, Friendly giant. Right? Like you can hear all those sounds of our preschool lives.
So you start there, you talk about that. You share that you feel it, what it was like. Cause it was a part of you. Um, you then move through into your school lives from elementary. And what did that look like and what experiences were presented? Um, you go into junior high and then all of a sudden you go, Oh my gosh, all of a sudden music showed up and you had so much music in your life, in junior high.
And then you went on to high school and you started becoming very much more particular about what you were going to listen to. And then you went off. VIN to your young adulthood. And some of us like me when I had my children, all of a sudden it went to what my children were listening to and I sort of forgot about myself.
So my personal soundtrack reminds me that there’s about a, a five or six year gap where I wasn’t adding in music for myself. So that gives me some information and then it goes on and on and on as, as throughout, um, How we age. So that’s probably the best one to start with. And it sounds like simple, but we don’t spend necessarily a lot of time with it and actually journal it down and write it down and write our experiences.
Um, it is something that we can connect to and then maybe start that music club. So again, it becomes a sharing moment.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Oh, wow. That’s uh, I can’t wait to, I can’t wait to tell you. I wanted to talk as well about your latest book wellness incorporated, because as I understand that this is a book that actually applies or helps other professionals apply your learnings.
Can you tell us about when did it come out?
Jennifer Buchanan: Yeah, so it came out a year ago, actually a year ago, January. Um, and. It was, um, yeah. Yeah, it was, uh, uh, uh, sort of like the real bridge between, um, being a music therapist, but definitely having to be entrepreneurial and start a business around that and realizing that.
The language that we used around our business was different than other businesses that the lens in which we looked at was definitely from a health and wellness perspective of our clients, but also of our business. You know, what, what truly is a healthy business. What’s a well business and it was so much beyond looking at just profit and.
As I went on, I, I decided to, um, complete, uh, an MBA 20 years after I started my business with a focus on social entrepreneurship, which was the closest I could find to health entrepreneurship. And even as I was doing that, I learned a lot, but I realized that being in this health and wellness industry, Uh, providing direct service to other humans was uniquely different.
So wellness incorporated, um, came out of that and I felt it was a book that was needed for many other people like me. I dedicated it to my 21 year old self when I started this business. And, uh, and it’s the book that I wish I would have had, especially in that first decade. It’s the nine steps to a values driven.
And sustainable business. So you can keep going on for these three decades. And I look forward to, uh, continuing to do this for the rest of my life. So I plan to also reread my book.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Fantastic. And I can see value for so many different entrepreneurs. Uh, and, and, and that, because it comes back down to the fundamentals, let’s say the, um, the, the, the beat of the, of their song.
Jennifer Buchanan: Exactly. Right.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre: So inspiring. Thank you for, for sharing so many insights with me now, one last question, and then I’m going to get to that to then closer. But I guess I was thinking about the difference between, cause you’ve done it three you’ve you’ve created music. You’ve created a business and you’ve created a book.
Are there parallels in those paths?
Jennifer Buchanan: Yeah. You know, that’s such a good question too. I thought about there’s something about just art, creating art and, um, Definitely around music and around music therapy. There’s a real art to that and a real art to engagement in businesses. The same. It feels like making art to me, I’m writing a book, certainly again, that creative spirit, an essence of art continues to co come around and, and, and play.
There’s play in all of it. You know, we don’t talk about play in business a lot. Um, if it wasn’t fun, I don’t think I’d still be doing it.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Yeah. And you already, um, uh, as you already pointed out the question, cause it was a, what would you tell your 21 year old self or younger self? Just like, I wish she had this book slowly.
So you already answered that question beautifully, Jennifer, please let my listeners know where they can learn and find out more about you online.
Jennifer Buchanan: Thanks. And thanks for having me today, Mark. This was a really, I really enjoyed our discussion a lot today. Um, so I can be reached anywhere around the social media land.
So whether you’re on Twitter or LinkedIn, whether you’re on Facebook or Instagram. So I’m, I’m very much there either under Jennifer Buchanan, but also my company, JB music therapy. Right. Uh, you can also, um, connect with me through my books. If you’re interested in learning more about music therapy, that’s the book tune in, and if you’re in health and wellness sector or any entrepreneur, who’s very people centric.
You will be interested in Wellness, Inc.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Awesome. Well, Jennifer, thank you for what you do and helping, uh, enrich other people’s lives. And thanks for hanging out with me today.
Jennifer Buchanan: Thank you.