Interview

Episode 155 – Rebel Reflections with Guest Host Sacha Black

Rebel Author Takeover Special Episode!

In this episode Sacha Black, host of The Rebel Author Podcast, takes over the Stark Reflections Podcast, renaming it the Rebel Reflections Podcast as part of celebrating the 1st anniversary of her podcast (Sept 25, 2020).

HAPPY ANNIVERSARY SACHA!!!!

Prior to the takeover, Sacha temporarily hands control back over to Mark, who reads comments from recent episodes, shares a personal update, and also a work from this episode’s two sponsors….

You can learn more about how you can get your work distributed to retailers and library systems around the world at starkreflections.ca/Findaway.

A motivational show for all the creatives out there with an inner rebel. Listen for interviews, industry news, tips, tricks and tools to help you take your creative business to the next level. Learn more about the Rebel Author Podcast.

In this episode Sacha poses the questions on the following topics which both Mark and Sacha answer:

  • Favorite rebel in history
  • Favorite literary rebel
  • What have you learned since you started podcasting?
  • What have you learned about yourself since starting podcasting?
  • What’s your favorite thing about podcasting? 
  • Why do you think Rebellion is important?
  • What kind of rebel are you?
  • A DAD JOKE…

Links of Interest:

Sacha Black is an author, rebel podcaster, speaker and developmental editor.

She has five obsessions; words, expensive shoes, conspiracy theories, self-improvement, and breaking the rules.

Sacha writes books about people with magical powers and other books about the art of writing.

When she’s not writing, she can be found laughing inappropriately loud, sniffing musty old books, fangirling film and TV soundtracks, or thinking up new ways to break the rules.

She lives in Hertfordshire, England, with her wife and genius, giant of a son.


The introductory, end, and bumper music for this podcast (“Laser Groove”) was composed and produced by Kevin MacLeod of www.incompetech.com and is Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0


Below is an automated transcription of the interview segment of this episode.

(The transcription has not been human-verified)

(Time stamps in [] are not indicative of the time in the overall episode, but in the interview portion of the episode)

Sacha Black: [00:00:00] So hello, rebel reflectives. My name is Sasha Black and I am taking over Mark’s awesome podcast because I reached a one year anniversary in my own podcasting journey. And Mark is the King of reflections and. That’s a time to reflect on, um, your, your podcasts in your journey than at a one year anniversary.

So I’ve got some questions that I’m going to throw at Mark today, and hopefully he’ll let me answer them too. Wait, wait. No, he will because I demand to answer the questions too. So shall we kick off?

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: [00:00:37] Well, I thought I thought I was going to ask the questions back to you. Cause that’s just part of being a rebel.

Right. Cause I’m learning from you as well, right?

Sacha Black: [00:00:43] Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. Fair enough. But what we’ll do, we’ll do it to him free. Okay. So very first question. Who is your favorite rebel in history?  

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: [00:00:55] Now, this is probably related to the fact that I just finished listening to white fragility. And I’ve been thinking a lot about black lives matter movement

Sacha Black: [00:01:04] and

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: [00:01:05] about Rosa Parks.

No, no. Did you get this

Sacha Black: [00:01:09] really?

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: [00:01:11] When I think about Rosa Parks, she doesn’t just represent quiet resistance, two bullshit. Um, and. I just, I thought about what she did and how small it was, but how big a thing it was. But also the, the other thing, because as a, as a, as a white male, I’m very, very, very privileged as a white, straight male.

I have all the privileges that you could possibly have. And, and, and I’m tall. Like I have everything except hair, but when I think about that, I also think it’s also women’s power. Right. So she represents more than one kind of thing. That’s a part. So you had Rosa Parks too. That is hilarious.

Sacha Black: [00:01:49] Yeah, that is hilarious.

But, and actually funny enough for a lot of the same reasons. So to me, I wanted to pick a woman. So I always knew I was going to be picking a woman, partly because, you know, female power, um, Well, I’m a bit of a rebel at it’s at it’s, you know, when you’re out of a history and I’m a woman. So I was picking a girl also for very similar reasons to you, the, the act of not giving somebody your seat on a bus is actually a very small act, but.

Because of who she was and because of her skin color, she changed the world. And that is what I love about those small acts of rebellion. Whilst the physical act of not getting up might be a small thing. It just ballooned into this enormous revolution that changed the world. And that is. It’s just the most perfect depiction of power and the power that each individual has.

And that’s why I love her and her rebellion act. So yeah, I can’t believe we chose the same one

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: [00:02:57] Separated at birth. I tell you.

Sacha Black: [00:03:01] Okay.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: [00:03:02] So rebellious twins. That’s what it is.

Sacha Black: [00:03:04] Yeah.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: [00:03:04] Yeah. Well, I’m going to ask the next.

Sacha Black: [00:03:06] Oh, okay, cool.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: [00:03:08] So who’s your favorite Literary rebel.

Sacha Black: [00:03:13] It’s so hard because there are. Yeah. So I actually have like a huge list and I’m not going to tell you the whole list because obviously we just need to keep it small.

And, um, so I’m going to pin it down to three and I’m going to give you the reason. So the first one is Justin Richardson and Peter Parnell, and they wrote an tango makes three, which is a kids, a book, all about unusual families. Specifically in this instance, LGBT families now this book. Oh, bond and like, so ready state.

So many countries yeah. Caused chaos. And yet the. Act of creating a story about difference and about different families gives people like me, who is, who is, um, you know, on the LGBT, uh, in the LGBT world with a child, uh, it gives my son something to feel connected to, and to feel community and to feel seen.

And so I think there’s no better rebellion than, um, something that gives people connection. So that’s why I chased them. The next one is Judy bloom. And so she was one of my favorite authors as a teenager, as a young teenager and her books, all for sort of middle grade and young adults. And they covered what seemed to me like extremely normal topics, but to lots of people that are very, very controversial.

So, you know, they cover things like religion. Um, Uh, like menstruation musterbation sex falling in love. Um, and because of that and because they talk about them so openly and honestly, and, um, you know, lots and lots of people have, um, Taken, uh, I can’t think of the word they taken a issue with her. Oh, so, and so she is one of the alumni with Stephen King.

Um, and there’s one other that I’ve now forgotten. She is one of the most fanned authors in America. And so for that reason, like I was picking up on the last one, super controversial. Because she has not written amazing in my humble opinion, but E L James, but I definitely feel like, you know, some people are going to be unhappy with this, but I don’t care because I’m a rebel.

Okay. So E L James wrote the 50 shades of gray, um, series. She rebelled because it was fan fiction. Like fan fiction is not supposed to be super famous or in millions and millions of pounds and get, you know, film rights. Um, and of course it’s the quality of her prose, but I am praising, but it’s the, the rebellious act that she inspired across women.

So because of her and, um, Have books all around, you know, sort of soft erotica, um, because of those books and because of the Kindle, uh, being very popular at the time she created a revolution and an empowerment in women’s sort of sexual confidence. And I think that is spectacular to give a whole gender confidence and empowerment.

And I love that. Wow. How about you?

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: [00:06:31] That is good. I love that. Uh, you, you, you, you rebelled against the question and gave three or like here’s a list.

Sacha Black: [00:06:39] I know. I’m so sorry.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: [00:06:40] I either was confused by the question or rebelled against the question. Cause I didn’t go with authors, although off the top of my head, if I want to think about rebels, literary rebels, I would say Scott Sigler and Merlin Lafertty.

Cause there are two of the first authors who, um, Uh, buck the trends and, and moved into prove that self publishing could work and, and giving away your, your stuff in audio, for example, to sell books. And then they both got big publishing contracts. So an early podcasters that I admired. So, um, but when I went with, and, and, and there was no contest here, even though there’s so many fictional characters, that’s what I thought you were going for a fictional.

Sacha Black: [00:07:18] Ah, okay.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: [00:07:21] Peter Parker Spiderman. And I know he doesn’t seem to be a rebel, however, he’s a vigilante, but he’s also a geeky nerd. Yeah. I still feel like the geeky nerd who, you know, like just no friends or whatever, can’t get a girl. That kind of thing. That was my, my persona, you know, I’m in my fifties, I still feel like a Kiki 14 year old who had those amazing powers.

And put on a mask to hide his identity, but when he puts on the mask and this is something that I’m using in my own fiction now is I’m understanding why he was such a cocky smartass when he put on the mask because, um, he, he became a different. Type of personality. He became that, that, um, you know, wise cracking, I mean, Deadpool takes it to a further brilliant, extreme, like in the same Marvel universe.

But for me, so much of my entire life is based on modeling Peter Parker with great power comes great responsibility, but then also being able to put on that mask and fight for good in a society where you know that yes, there are law enforcement officers and there’s the law and stuff like that. But sometimes you need.

To you, you need to do to rebel in order to protect people in order to help a society and stuff like that. So, so Peter Parker, uh, just central to my central to my life. Oh, I love,

Sacha Black: [00:08:45] I love that. I love Deadpool as well. He is literally one of my favorites. Like probably unsurprisingly. You want to have like favorites, but, um, yeah.

I love his movies. Um, but yeah, I liked that. And also I liked that you took a different stance on it because I wasn’t expecting that. So, yeah. Good. We’re up Elliot? Um, is it me? It’s me now. Isn’t it. Okay. So what have you learned since you started podcasting?

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: [00:09:11] Oh, God, what haven’t I learned that, uh, the reason I, the podcast is to continue to learn, like getting to talk to people like you and, and, and just understanding as many different perspectives as I can.

Um, uh, yeah. Well, what have I learned? I’ve probably learned more in the two plus years, uh, since I started well, my own podcast, but I’ve been podcasting before then. I’ve probably learned as much from the podcasts as I did in the previous 20 years. Of working in the business.

Sacha Black: [00:09:42] How about you? Have you

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: [00:09:43] learned in one year anniversary?

Sacha Black: [00:09:46] Yeah. So I could give you, I could reel off a list of like, you know, I’ve learned technical things. I’ve learnt website things, I’ve learnt distribution things. I’ve learned little things about how to pitch people and reach out to people and all that stuff. But, um, I’m not sure. Any of those really capture the thing that has meant the most to me, which is that I can do it.

And I was so terrified for so long. And I know lots of listeners will be wanting to start a podcast and be like me from a year ago. And I genuinely didn’t think I was capable. I didn’t think, um, Organizationally. I didn’t think technically I’d be able to do it. I didn’t think, um, time-wise, I’d be able to do it.

I didn’t think, um, I just, I put stock barriers in my place, you know, and told myself I couldn’t before I’d even tried and. I think that’s the biggest thing I can say to listeners is if you love listening to podcasts, if you listen to Mark all the time, you listened to, I don’t know, Joanna Penn, for example, all the time.

And it’s something that you adore, you love audio, then just give it a go because Ali thought I couldn’t do it either. So yeah. Um, what I’ve learned is that podcasting is not as scary and terrifying or as difficult as you think it might be.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: [00:11:10] No. Good. Good. Yeah. And you probably learned that there are people.

Out there that you don’t know that are going to benefit from the things that you know. And I think the other message I like to share with my listeners regularly is you’re an expert in something that you have knowledge and insight, you’re the best person to write your book because you’re the only one who can do it.

And you have insights. No matter where you are in your writing career, that can help any other writer, including Daniel Steele, Stephen King, James, any of those authors, right? Joanna Penn, you know, who we see as a goddess, right. In our, in our realm. Um, she learns from people who haven’t yet published a book, you know, and if, and if, and if those masters can learn, why can’t

Sacha Black: [00:11:56] we?

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: [00:11:58] Yeah. Mmm. Okay. What have you learned about yourself since starting podcasting?

Sacha Black: [00:12:05] So, yeah. I mean, those questions kind of blended for me, which I didn’t mean them to intentionally do. Yeah. Well, I will, I’ll rebel a little bit. So there is one other thing. Um, and it’s so silly, but I, which is why I’m going to tell you.

So, um, I am still. I, I apologize in advance for saying this, but I’m still shit scared of telephone calls. Oh my God. I hate them. I absolutely hate telephone calls and apparently

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: [00:12:34] Actual telephone machine calls, not video calls?

Sacha Black: [00:12:37] Yeah. So this is the difference in my head. These calls, these Skype calls for podcasting don’t count.

I don’t know why, because it’s automated. I should be actually terrified to speak to completely new people, um, on zoom or whatever for a podcast. But when it comes to the phone style, I will avoid calling call centers. I will avoid. Calling my mom, my brother face up. Yeah. So apparently it’s, I don’t know why, but yeah, this is what I’ve learned for myself.

This is what I’ve learned about myself. I thought I would get over my fear of talking to people on the phone. Unnamed people. Nope. I can do a podcast still. Can’t do a phone call. What about you?

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: [00:13:16] Oh, um,

I, I’m not surprised to learn this. But I’ve always been a procrastinator, but I think so. I have not in a weekly podcast since the first week of January, 2018, regardless of what’s going on in my world, it could be heavily deathbed food. Whatever’s going on. I have not missed a Friday sometimes I’ve not posted it till noon on the Friday.

Normally I post them Thursday night and then yeah. You know, midnight that I have them roll over and it doesn’t matter how early I record things. I could have five or six episodes in the bag. I’m still not producing it till late on Thursday. And it’s kind of like, well, I never early make plans for Thursday night.

Now when I’m traveling and stuff like that for work often I’ve recorded stuff from hotel rooms. I have pre recorded, some things I’ve done, you know, all kinds of stuff. Uh, so I think I, what I learned about myself is that I don’t think I will ever. Ever resolved my procrastination issues, what I do know about myself and, and I, and I played to this strength is I work to deadline.

And, and this is just, you know, and so if my deadline, because I’ve made a commitment to, to who’ve, I made the commitment to, well, yeah, well to my listeners. Right. But I mean, really, I mean, it’s not like they’re going to get upset if it’s a day later, I miss a week or I decide to take a vacation or something.

But I think the deadline is so critical to me, which is why, you know, I’ve got two books right now that I haven’t written that are up for preorder for early 20, 21. I got to help. I write them. I know I’m going to. Right. So I think, um, I think I’ve just reaffirmed the fact that I’m never not going to be a procrastinator.

That’s just, that’s my super power.

Sacha Black: [00:14:59] I love that. Um, but the thought of having to do it in a hotel room gives me hives.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: [00:15:06] But the audio doesn’t come out that well. Right? Cause you, you can’t control the sound as well, even though I’ve, I’ve traveled with the little mic I’ve I actually have a little bag, which it’s all like it wraps and protects it to travel with it.

I’m thinking I get in the second, like just for travel because I don’t have to disconnect it from the mic, like the arm mechanical arm.

Sacha Black: [00:15:24] I love it. Okay. What’s your favorite thing about podcasting? I

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: [00:15:30] think my favorite thing is hearing from somebody. That I have never met, or maybe only met in passing quickly at a conference somewhere and hearing that, uh, an interview I did with somebody or a reflection I made that had actually.

That it actually helped them. That, that, that it actually inspired them. I mean, honestly, honestly, I know it’s, it’s why we write, we write to touch people, not, you know, not in an easy way we write, we write to touch other lives, our, our, our stories and, and we’ll will resonate with somebody emotionally.

It’ll do something, it’ll lift them up. It will bring them down, whatever it is we want them to do. And when I learned that something that I spent time and energy and love and passion on when I learned that it actually helps someone else. That powers me, that fuels me. And that’s my favorite thing. How about you?

What’s your

Sacha Black: [00:16:22] it’s kind of similar. I would say. So I love that the conversations that I have with, um, very amazing people in the industry, every single episode will produce a golden nuggets. So it doesn’t, you know, within that 60 minutes, it might be one nugget. Sometimes it’s 10 nuggets, but. And also that every lesson, I will take a different nugget from it, but I love that these big conversations create these tiny, um, uh, you know, uh, what’s the word epiphany’s almost that can change an author’s whole career trajectory.

And I love that. I get to share that and give that, you know, that’s something that we give and put into the community, um, and that they, and I. I guess also the people do come back and say that, but, you know, I have spoken to so many people that have quite literally changed the direction that I was going in.

They’ve given me, you know, huge, um, huge craft improvements just from these tiny little nuggets and, um, yeah, that, you know, I can help other people by creating these in these conversations. That’s what I love the most.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: [00:17:34] That is awesome. That is awesome. Um, And for me to ask you a question, Sasha, why, why do you think rebellion is important?

Obviously it is important, but why is it important?

Sacha Black: [00:17:50] I think that rebellion is so deeply entwined in creativity that they are almost one in the same. And I think that every single creative. Is a rebel because the act of. Bringing something out of nothing, the act of putting your thoughts and your words and your story and your spin out into the world, which may or may not, um, uh, you know, make people happy.

They may be, they may hate your side of the story. They may love desperately love your side of the story. I think every single word that we put out there is an act of rebellion in a sense. I also. I think rebellion is so important because it is at the root of all change. So, you know, we wouldn’t have an indie community if it weren’t for the small acts of rebellion that led to people, um, publishing independently.

So I think rebellion is at the root of everything good in this world. Um, so yeah, like I think it is everything. It is, it is everything that we need to, to solve all of our problems in the world.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: [00:19:09] Yeah. I mean, I agree when you go back to biological, you know, our species wouldn’t exist if not for rebellion at the molecular or biological level, as, as mutations and adaptations said, movie changed and became something bizarre and strange and new and unique.

So, yeah, I honestly agree. And I think, um, so much, so much good can come out so bad too, but so much good can come out of that. And there’s also this, um, Without rebellion, it’s complete compliance. And one of the, I think when, when, when I reflect back on my university years, I, you know, I, you know, I took English language and literature.

So one would one would assume that I learned a lot about the masters and about, you know, the writer, literature and society and all of those things. But what I really learned, the, the, the biggest takeaway was critical thinking. Not to just accept something that I’m told, but to actually analyze it, it didn’t understand the source of where it’s coming from.

So I can try desperately, especially in these divisive times. I know where I stand, but I am also very aware of my own confirmation bias about everything. And so I try to look at it and say, why did I like that? Oh, because it confirmed everything I believe then. Okay, sure. But why else did I like, what about it or why didn’t I agree with that?

Well, because of this, Oh, do I need to read more? Do I not understand this? And I think rebellion and critical thinking are critical because you have to understand why the change is necessary in order to move forward, potentially. So, yeah, I mean, very similar to your reasoning there.

Sacha Black: [00:20:45] Why do you think as a society, we are so compliant.

I mean, this is completely ad hoc, you know, prepared you for this, but why do you think we are

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: [00:20:56] well, I’m Canadian, so it’s very much, I just a people pleaser. Right. I just want people to be happy and not be upset and right. So, so oftentimes you just kind of go with it. And again, I, I mentioned just. Finishing reading and white fragility.

And, and, and, and I recognize all of those times was that I was compliant because I just wanted to save the feelings of another white person. Because if I had said something, it would have interrupted and made everyone uncomfortable. Well, dammit, why didn’t I do that? Why did I perpetuate the supremacy, uh, in, in a small, I’d see, it sounds like, and again, not seeing us as bad people, but why did I do something like that?

Or why didn’t I speak out about sexism or any of those things? So I think, I think those little rebellions, which bring us it’s kind of discomfort can cause growth. Hmm. And so, uh, I, I reflect on times when I had been called out for things I had said, and didn’t realize it had been offensive to someone else.

Uh, and I appreciate desperately the courage that the person who called me out on it said, even though I can go, I’ve got to look back 30 years and think of something that somebody said to me and I went, okay, Oh, I, I didn’t take that the right way. I need to contact them and apologize and thank them for calling me out on it.

It took me 30 years to figure out what I said was wrong or how I had approached it was wrong. So I think, um, yeah, I think that’s, I think that’s important.

Um, we’re getting deep here.

Sacha Black: [00:22:25] I know we are, but I think it’s so important because you know, I genuinely think that we are. Bread as a, as a people to be compliance because there is protection and numbers, you know, stay with the pack. Um, but you never see a successful person. Um, as part of the pack, they are, they are, they always stand out.

They are always were about rebels. They are always leaders. And therefore, you know, you have to embrace your inner rebel if you want to make it. But, uh, so I guess this, and I think it’s my question. I forget who’s doing what now, but, um, I, I think this leads us to the final question and I don’t know my answer to this.

Um, but what kind of rebel are you?

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: [00:23:18] Aye. It’s funny. I don’t know what kind of rebel I am, but, but I, but I understand in, in the publishing industry, I have consistently looked at the way things are and said, this is bullshit. It does not need to be this way. What if it were this way? And I honestly think that how I’ve gotten to where I’ve gotten.

Not that I’m anything big, but how I’ve every single step in the evolution of where I’ve gotten to in this industry has been not being satisfied with the way things are that we need something in place. And so the type of rebel I’ve been as I’ve questioned the status quo and yet not just punched against it for the sake of breaking it, but punching against it with a goal to make things better.

Or to change things in whatever small steps, whether that’s using print on demand technology, whether that’s using, uh, digital, um, uh, I mean the very one of my very first acts that I can remember was, uh, being the manager who wouldn’t sit on his hands, being the manager who wanted to be able to do every single task that he assigned.

To a staff members. To me that was really, really critical that I could understand what they were doing. Um, self publishing, my first book in 2004, when all of my friends who were full time, authors making a living off this is don’t self publish. It’s the best way you can ruin your career. And I said, I’m doing it.

And here’s why, but I had reasons it wasn’t just because I was being pigheaded it’s because, because they had already been published in small press magazines. And so they’d already been edited. So they’re already been curated. So I kind of had that stamp of approval. But people tend to want. That’s what publishing is for a lot of authors who are already successful independently.

So I think I’m the kind of rebel who, who, who makes those small steps or wants to make those small steps to, uh, to make things right? Or what about, what about you, have you thought about what kind of rebel who you actually are? Just troublemaker.

Sacha Black: [00:25:09] Yeah, I think I was a born troublemaker. Um, is there any hard for me because I’m not sure if I was a born rebel or if I was made a rebel.

Um, and, and that’s why I find this a hard one to answer because. Part of me would like to think I’m a quiet rebel. So I do lots of small quiet acts of rebellion against the system. But my experience through my life is not that my experience is, and this is why I’m not sure if I was made a rebel, I didn’t fit in because other people didn’t let me fit in.

And. You know, I wasn’t white enough to be white. I wasn’t Brown enough to be Brown. I wasn’t, you know, anything, I wasn’t straight enough to be straight. I wasn’t gay enough to be gay. You know, like I’ve never quite fit into any box or any group. And therefore other people have. Made me, uh, well, you know, I, I don’t want to be like a woe is me, but I have never been in any of those communities or groups.

And therefore that has pushed me to rebellion because, well, you know, if you’re not going to include me, then, you know, give you the birdie and I’ll go and do something by myself, you know? And so I know. I am. So I think I fully embrace rebellion and every single kind of form reverse psychology works really well on me.

You tell him you got to do something. I’m going to go and do it. So, yeah, I think I am the, I am one embodiment of rebellion. I am rebellion in all its forms because I don’t fit in any group, particular group, you know, a box ticking box. I don’t, um, Any rule that’s placed on me throughout my life. I have always made a point to try and break.

So even though I would like to think I’m a quite rebel or you think I’m probably already loud rebel. Um, yeah, so I haven’t got as, as, uh, um, generous rebellion, you know, I, I don’t think I’ve necessarily ever, um, I haven’t done what you’ve done and gone down the route of trying to make things better for other people.

I think I have, I think I was. Both formed a rebel and made a rebel. Um, you know, I don’t know whether you believe in fate or whatever, and, you know, perhaps I could have gone a different path, but I didn’t. I embraced, I think the carrot that was well, the, the, you know, the bit of me that was born a rebel. Um, yeah, I don’t know that I have a, uh, A a as kind stories as you, but I want to Dodge it because I didn’t get one last time.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: [00:27:56] Well, I just want to say congratulations, happy anniversary. Um, and, and it’s very, uh, it’s very, very obvious listening to you talk about the rebel that you are, why you chose the brand. I think it’s, when I think about that brand, it is so perfectly fitting for, for you and what you do for, and actually ironically, You don’t recognize this, but what you are doing is your helping other people by that rebellious spirit, by sharing those, uh, those perspectives.

And by and by, by boldly declaring those things, you’re helping empower other authors. You’re probably just not recognizing that. So thank you for that.

Sacha Black: [00:28:36] Oh, that means a lot. Thank you.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: [00:28:40] I think about the mountain. That you have climbed and the mountains that you help, other authors and other creatives climb.

And did you know that jokes about rebels who scale mountains? They’re uh, they’re not just funny. They’re hilarious.

Sacha Black: [00:29:09] I loved that

it was a good one. I liked it. And then I got caught funny. I’m literally crying. I can’t believe you crafted it. Uh, about rev. Rebel is the opposite end. There’s a whole joke. Uh, between me and my wife, because I don’t understand jokes ever, unless they’re yeah, no, I just don’t get checked. I’m that person?

Yeah, the conversation has moved on and five minutes later, I will laugh when I finally worked out what the joke was, which is why I love that joke. So much because they’re always a play on words, which is why I can understand that. But, um, yeah,

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: [00:29:51] that explains why, why? Right. Because they’re in your wheelhouse, right?

Sacha Black: [00:29:54] Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I say thank you for that. You’ve made my day.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: [00:29:59] Awesome. Well, again, congratulations. And I’m taking this damn podcast over at least temporarily to say Sasha, where can people find out more about you and the rebel author podcast?

Sacha Black: [00:30:09] Oh, okay. Yes, of course. So, um, such a black.co.uk. That’s a Sasha with a C a if you’d like to interact with me, then Instagram is your best bet.

And I am at Sasha black author, and you can listen to the podcasts basically on any podcatcher. I I’m pretty sure I’ve now got distribution on anything. So just type in the rebel author podcast, and you should find me

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: [00:30:31] awesome. Thanks for taking over.

Sacha Black: [00:30:34] Thank you. Uh, wait. No. Yes. Two, right. I will take over forever.

Okay.

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